Borderline Personality Disorder Chat Conference With Paul Markovitz M.D., Ph.D. - 6/28/00

Page Three

<Freaked> just when I think I can handle this 
<entre2chaises> Freaked, I found a therapist who understands BPD and works closely with a psychiatrist who is flexible. 
<DrM> snow, it is a statistic. It should get some better, but never totally without meds and therapy 
<Freaked> I think I�ve found one too 
<Freaked> he's got me going to an anger management group 
<DrM> your lucky freaked. The good ones are few and far between 
<Pattybpd> Freaked, check out my page on "cognitive distortions" in the "fun" section of the website. I think what you may be doing is "catastrophizing." 
<entre2chaises> Freaked, the drugs I started on didn't help so I went off meds completely for about 6 mos. 
<weepippo> Dr. m what is my Risperdal for? 
<anast> Dr. m why don�t people know about bpd? I have even worked in psych and I have never heard of it until 2 months ago upon dx 
<bingle1> mine is excellent also. He works closely with me my therapist and any info I might come across. 
<entre2chaises> Freaked, then I had a "meltdown" and the pdoc put me on Effexor. 
<bingle1> Haven�t needed to be in hospital for a year 
<DrM> weep, it is used to either calm folks down or get rid of psychosis. 
<entre2chaises> Freaked, it's been definitely both therapy and meds that have helped me. My symptoms are almost negligible. 
<snowonthemountain> does it cause weight gain, Dr. M.? 
<entre2chaises> OK, maybe "negligible" is a little optimistic. :) 
<DrM> all the meds can cause weight gain in many but not all cases. Provigil helps to decrease weight and Serzone does not increase weight 
<_ellie_> is a bpd "specialist" really any better than a great "regular" psychiatrist? 
<anast> where do I sign for the Provigil? 
<entre2chaises> Weep, I tried Risperdol for a brief time to help with the constant "picking" I did... I was always picking at my face. 
<DrM> yes ellie they are. Just like a cardothoracic surgeon is better with hearts than a regular surgeon. 
<_ellie_> Risperdol caused me to lactate, weep. :P 
<_ellie_> thanks, DrM 
<weepippo> some will not answer patty 
<snowonthemountain> with meds and therapy it is reasonable to think we can overcome bpd 
<snowonthemountain> ? 
<DrM> common symptom week. You can take meds to get rid of lactation if the Risperdol helps 
<Gillian1> Where do you find them, bpd specialists, in a phone book under psychiatrists? 
<anast> DrM, can I blame my parents for my BPD?
<Pattybpd> Yes, I know Ellie. Most clinician's don't have a clue about the BPD. 
<DrM> yes you can blame your parents for the genes, but not much else. You have control of your life, not them. 
<anast> but I have many abandonment issues 
<DrM> best thing to do for BPD as of now is to call a University based program. 
<DrM> They see a lot of BPD and tend to have a savvy staff 
<Freaked> Dr What causes BPD? 
<Freaked> Am I asking questions that have already been answered? 
<Freaked> lol 
<anast> I was actually being flip, 10 people died in my family from the ages of 5 until 15, including my mother and my brother 
<DrM> We have no idea what causes BPD. It runs in families, even if the kids are adopted away at birth, they get it 
<Gillian1> oh how sad 
<_ellie_> no one in my family has bpd 
<weepippo> mine either 
<snowonthemountain> Dr. M.- if hospitalization is required during recovery, do you think that it is helpful to be hospitalized more than a week or so? 
<Freaked> does Abuse cause it 
<DrM> OCD, Depression and bipolar can be lesser forms of BPD 
<Freaked> like sexual abuse and severe bullying? 
<Pattybpd> Do you mean Dr. that if a BPD mother gives birth to a child and that child is immediately adopted out to a family with no major mental health issues, that probably that child will have the BPD? 
<DrM> I do not believe abuse causes bpd 
<entre2chaises> I have seen for myself in my own life and by meeting people on the Internet that recovery from BPD is possible, but it's WORK. 
<Gillian1> that�s for sure 
<snowonthemountain> my t told me I was trying TOO hard! 
<DrM> Patty, there are no hard statistics. However, the odds are increase that the child will still have bpd 
<_ellie_> freaked, I think DrM said earlier that abuse does not cause bpd 
<Freaked> lol I�m a bit dense tonight 
<entre2chaises> Dr M, abuse may not *cause* bpd, but couldn't it exacerbate the situation, make the symptoms worse? 
<Pattybpd> Thank you very much Dr. That info is very important for a parent of someone with BPD. There is much guilt on the part of the parent. 
<snowonthemountain> did you see my ? about the length of hospitalization? 
<Freaked> so basically those with BPD should not have kids? 
<drewbug> no one will diagnose me with anything specific, other than "depression"... what good is that? I recognize all the symptoms of bpd in myself, and have had t's admit that... but no diagnosis 
<DrM> No freaked. Have kids. First, they may not get it. 
<DrM> Second, it is treatable 
<anast> OK, this is off the wall, I have suspected that my grandfather is crazy for a long time, he died in a mental hospital, the death cert. says his death was caused by Broncho pneumonia, secondary was a confusional state, what exactly does that mean? 
<DrM> Third, it probably will be curable in the next 15 years 
<entre2chaises> Snow, I was in a hospital for 3 weeks for depression and not told of my BPD diagnosis. The 3 weeks were just right for me. 
<Opalene> I think that we are extremely sensitive and abuse affects us more than others 
<drewbug> entre... did you go in voluntarily? because I've been considering that for a while 
<entre2chaises> drewbug, you don't need the diagnosis to get better. 
<DrM> Opalene, abuse does effect you more. 
<Pattybpd> I would love for the Sanctuary to go out of business due to a cure. 
<DrM> But, it does not cause the illness. 
<snowonthemountain> that is why I want to know 
<drewbug> entre... makes me feel like I�m making the whole thing up without a diagnosis <snowonthemountain> after Lori had to go in last weekend after doing SO good- it made me think about it 
<_ellie_> I understand how you feel drewbug, totally 
<entre2chaises> drewbug, yes, I did it voluntarily because of harmful thoughts. 
<snowonthemountain> I just think I need to have a plan if the meds quit working 
<Opalene> I think that someday they will find a mind/body connection 
<snowonthemountain> right now if I had to go in I wouldn�t because of being put in handcuffs 
<DrM> If meds worked once, they will work again. Heck the fact they worked indicates that it is something chemical 
<anast> ok so no one is listening 
<entre2chaises> drewbug, sometimes having a specific diagnosis in your medical history can cause problems down the road. 
<Opalene> You just can't possibly live with the stress that BPD causes without it affecting other organs of the body 
<drewbug> Dr. m... you really believe that? what if they stop working and nothing else ever does? 
<DrM> Our entire self and body is controlled by our brain, so Opalene is right 
<drewbug> entre... I�ve heard that... 
<DrM> drew, you know what you have is fixable, or they never would have worked The only crazy thing you could do would be to hurt yourself or not take meds. 
<snowonthemountain> I am asking inappropriate questions aren't I patty? 
<drewbug> Dr. m... hurt myself a lot... and I don't believe it's fixable, sometimes... what if I just *convinced* myself that the meds were working? 
<TimLPN> Is it wrong to consider my self in recovery from BPD since I do everything I can to minimize the effects of it in my daily life?? 
<entre2chaises> anast, I think "back then" they didn't know what to call things. 
<anast> so I should delve deeper? 
<Pattybpd> It is not inappropriate if it is something you need to know. 
<entre2chaises> I guess, but I don't know what else you would find. 
<_ellie_> no way Tim. :) 
<entre2chaises> I know my maternal grandmother had problems with depression, that my dad, his mom and her dad all had problems with rage. 
<anast> that the bastard was a crazy f*cker and he screwed up my innocence 
<entre2chaises> I guess you just put the pieces together the best you can. 
<DrM> No one fakes getting better on meds, or they would just keep faking. Meds work or they do not. Usually when they poop out, you just need more, or a different one 
<drewbug> what about a placebo effect? 
<DrM> Keep fighting to be well. It will work at some point 
<Pattybpd> Yes, I believe we can all get better. 
<entre2chaises> Anast, that's a whole another thing 
<DrM> If there is a placebo effect, it would keep happening. In our controlled trials we had ZERO placebo effect 
<snowonthemountain> it is really a very anxiety producing issue for me right now- when your meds quit working as I suspect has happened and hospitalization is necessary- and you have been traumatized by handcuffs before- it is very difficult to think of that as an option 
<Gillian1> great 
<entre2chaises> anast, sorry if I said anything... 
<entre2chaises> I was trying to help. 
<anast> I know entre 
<entre2chaises> I didn't know you were in a hard place. 
<entre2chaises> I've been there. 
<_ellie_> could two years of anorexia (age 14,15) have caused brain changes that may have led to my BPD dx? 
<bingle1> Snow I have been there also and I agree with you. trust is very hard after that 
<anast> no entre its not you, I just wanted validation from the death certificates and I didn�t get it 
<DrM> anorexia is usually a precursor to BPD, but not caused 
<snowonthemountain> then what do I do? 
<DrM> the cause of BPD 
<_ellie_> okay, thank you 
<entre2chaises> When my step-grandfather died, his molestation of children came out from the family members he had molested. 
<Freaked> ok this is getting a bit triggery for me 
<entre2chaises> Sorry, freaked. Thanks for saying so. 
<DrM> entre, it look like molestation may be chemically induced, too. 
<_ellie_> yes snow 
<drewbug> has anyone had a productive experience in the hospital? or is the thought of taking a break from things just some kind of dream? 
<entre2chaises> snow, there weren't any handcuffs where I was hospitalized. 
<Skreee> maybe we should slow the speed down a bit again? 
<snowonthemountain> I do not want to be put in handcuffs again! 
<Gillian1> My hospital stay a year ago helped me very much, or I wouldn't 
<Gillian1> be getting the help I needed now 
<DrM> psyche hospitals are emergency rooms. It is a tough place to be. Handcuffs are not part of our hospital. 
<Pattybpd> My experience in the hospital was extremely positive. It was also not a county hospital. When you are at the point in your life when you are unable to care for yourself, it is nice to be taken care of until you can become stronger. 
<Gillian1> nor where I went 
<snowonthemountain> my only choice is the state hospital 
<Gillian1> I found the county hospital had better therapy than the very nicely decorated one 
<drewbug> how would one go about checking into a hospital anyway? and what if I couldn't get back out again? 
<Jedic> I was in a private hospital last time and they helped me the most of any hospital I've been in 
<snowonthemountain> that is what I am afraid of 
<Pattybpd> You become handcuffed when you call 911 if you are suicidal. They do that to protect yourself and them. 
<TimLPN> I grew up in psych hospitals I think working in the medical library for 2 yrs was a precursor for me becoming a nurse 
<Gillian1> no your not anast 
<DrM> One or two good staff people at a hospital is all you need 
<anast> DrM I was one of those good people and where did it get me? 
<entre2chaises> I checked into the hospital by calling their help line. It was a private hospital but my insurance covered it. I had a great experience there.